And the color architecture sucks... And the imaging model sucks... And the font architecture sucks... And the window manager architecture sucks... And... X should be avoided. The entire industry is attempting to move away from it. Java is simply NeWS in C++ clothing. Ask Gosling. -- Patrick Logan mailto:patrickl@gemstone.com Voice 503-533-3365 Fax 503-629-8556 Gemstone Systems, Inc http://www.gemstone.com