Moose Requirements & LLL followup [djg21]

[David Garfield]

Quoting two messages from Michael David WINIKOFF

>> On Thu, 29 Apr 93 22:46:21 CDT, "Dan Odom" wrote:
That was me, David Garfield.  Watch the quotes!
>>
>> I would like to propose the following goals for system size and
>> requirements:
>>     - Run on any 386 family CPU (including 12MHz 386SX or 386SL)
>>     - REQUIRE not more than 896k of memory (1 Meg - 128 unrecoverable
>>             shadow bios [if we can't figure out how to get it back in
>>             some cases])
>>     - Require not more than one of:
>>         = ANY video adapter and a keyboard (for text use)
>>         = A VGA or better and a keyboard (for graphics use)

>Mouse?

Mouse is optional and therefore not REQUIRED.

>I think you should be able to use it with less then VGA.
>I'm not going to bother arguing for this though.

I would actually like to support less than a VGA for graphics too, but
I think other will have problems with putting a GUI on a EGA, or
worse, CGA.  I suppose I could have propose supporting CGA low
resolution graphics (160*100, 16 color, yes CGA can do 16 color
graphics, and it is even documented, if you know where to look).

>>         = Any bi-directional stream interface (for remote use)

>Is this an indirect way of saying a dumb-terminal on a serial line? :-)

Actually, this is a way of saying serial line without preventing it
from also allowing network connections, or bi-directional use of a
parellel port.

>>     - Require not more than 5 Meg of disk storage for the operating
>>             system and normal runtime, not counting development system
>>             and fancy graphics classes and data (fonts, etc).
>>     - Require not more than 20 Meg for the NORMAL development system  [fixed]
>>     - Require not more than 20 Meg for the Full Normal graphics
>>             classes and data.

In reference to someone else comments on 20 Meg, ok, I said goal.  We
should try, and admit we might not succeed on some goals, like this.

>> I will not say we should require excellent performance on a 12MHz
>> 386SX with 896k, but it should, I think, be able to run.

>... be able to run comfortably.

Exactly.  Moose should work reasonably on a 12MHz 386SX with 896k, at
least with a basic VGA in text mode, and maybe in a simple VGA
graphics mode.

>Agree.

>> David
>Michael Winikoff

--------------------------------------------------

>>
>> David Garfield Said:
That was not me, that was Dan Odom.  Watch the quotes!
>>
>>
>> I dunno; I like the idea of distributing apps in source form and letting
>> the user compile them, like UNIX.

>This limits applications to being public domain.
>I think it's a good idea but to make it possible for any commercial applications
>to exist you must provide a facility for distributing binaries.

>Besides -- a lot of shareware gets distributed without code.
>(Sometimes the author is too embarassed about the code to puiblish it :-)

>Michael

For the sake of the above mentioned commerial applications and
shareware developers, we need to have a distribution method other than
source.  For the sake of portability we should have some method of
distribution other than system-specific binary.  This leaves us with
an interpreter of some sort, ant thus we get LLL.  But I still feel
that it is not to be used for most/all of the standard distributions.
I will point out (again?) that this can be done any time up till when
there is a general public distribution.  After that it is too late.
You also can't aford to change the LLL once you do have a general
public distribution.  If you do, you get other portability problems.

As for the comment someone had about disadvantages of putting
something like this in the kernel, you have to put it somewhere fairly
common.  Perhaps the interpreter winds up being a second meta-class?
Anybody want to discuss meta-classes?  Should we support meta-classes?
This might solve the upgrade problems, and even allow any developer
that felt the need to design a new interpreter.

David



-- 
David Garfield/2250 Clarendon Blvd/Arlington, VA 22201   (703)522-9416
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