[Fwd: Re: cliki changes + opinions + XML]

Massimo Dentico m.dentico@virgilio.it
Sun Jan 5 06:54:02 2003

As sometimes happens, thanks to the strange settings of this list,
Pietro sends this mail only to me, but I'm sure this is intended
for the list (because obviously we speak italian in private e-mails).

Massimo Dentico

 > Hi Pietro.
Hi Massimo.

 > Well, your changes are logged, see the link to an .rdf file
 > on the node "Recent Changes"
 >    - http://cliki.tunes.org:8000/recent-changes.rdf
 > but they are not visible on the node itself.

I had a look to the recent-changes.dat. All the changes I have
done seem to be there, but the invisible ones have not my alias.

(3250540033 "Apostle" "schizophonic" "Added.")
(3250540296 "VINO" "schizophonic" "Fixed.")
(3250541712 "Argon" "schizophonic" "Added.")

some of the changes you saw

(3250703350 "Sand Box" NIL "Silly update to check logging of changes")
(3250703539 "Sand Box" NIL "Another silly change to check logging.")

the last two changes I did to check why logging did not work
with me. Note that instead of the name I typed (my alias)
the slot contains NIL. It is perhaps for this that these
entries are not rendered. However, the problem seems to be
not only with me:

(3250433069 "Linearity 101" NIL "Added quotes and fixed link to Wadler's
(3250433078 "Linearity 101" NIL "Added quotes and fixed link to Wadler's
(3250433096 "2K" NIL "Added.")
(3250433311 "2K" NIL "Added.")

 > Unfortunately it is not so. First of all a (meta-)language without
 > semantic is useless. As Erik Naggum, on comp.lang.lisp, noted:
 >    Structure is nothing if it is all you got. Skeletons spook
 >    people if [they] try to walk around on their own. I really
 >    wonder why XML does not.

I completely agree. In facts, I was speaking mainly about DTDs.
The fact is that, if I got right, XML is used as a boilerplate term

1- the language with which you write DTDs;
2- all Your Own Special Purpose languages you can define using
the language at point 1, i.e. a language whose syntax is described
in a specific DTD document; Examples: RDF, XHTML, XSLT,
XQuery, XPath, SOAP ...
3- last but not least, all the single phrases (i.e. the files with
extension .rdf, .xhtml, .whatever) of all the languages at point 2.

Of course 1 has a semantics, but with 1 you just express
the syntax of a language at  point 2, not its semantics.
The DTD of XSLT does not say what a XSLT document
computes. You must specify its semantics in some other way.

Said that, I read somewhere that DTDs are bad both syntactically
and semantically, that many of the most popular languages of point
2 (XSLT, XQuery and such) also are, and so on, so I reckon you
are right in many respects when you speak about crappy semantics.
What still I did not get is what XML is, 1, 2, 3 or all of above.
In facts, I think it is a good example of _(buzzword).

 > Anyway if something is obscure I accept suggestions or
 > requests of clarification (ROC?? No, please .. not yet
 > another Internet acronym!!) ;-)
 > Regards.
 > --
 > Massimo Dentico