[unios] Re: No kernel

[Pat Wendorf]

From: Pat Wendorf <beholder@ican.net>

> > > > We can use a "no-kernel" design. All hardware, so cpu and memory too,
> > > > is abstracted by an object each, running in a seperate memory space etc.
> > > > This would make it all very flexible, and probably stable, but not fast.
>
> I realize the term "no kernel" is broad and can be used for any design
> that is decentralized, but you should still give credit where it is due,
> and be clear as to what you mean when you say "no kernel."  Emmanuel Marty
> coined the term "no-kernel" for his project, which isn't anything like the
> description you wrote.  Here I take it to mean you want to talk about
> possible designs of decentralized systems.  Examples are Emmanuel Marty's,
> or a microkernel, or TUNES, or something else.  It should be the goal of
> this thread to decide WHICH MODEL UniOS will use.  Let's discuss the
> alternatives.

The working model, as I understand it, at this point is totally abstracted
hardware that handles all the tasking and memory management.  Objects are handled
by other objects loaded at boot time (such as a system abstract).  Each object
interacts with each other object with small IPC code.  Access to objects is
controlled by a security object within the system abstract.  I guess you could say
the model runs in flat mode on an intel processor (I'm not as knowledgeable about
this as some of the other members).  As I understand from Pieter's model, the
whole object hierarchy is implemented in tree form, where top level objects have
the most access, and can grant or deny it as such.  I don't believe we are looking
at a kernel at this point, just free floating objects intercommunicating in
defined channels.

> Emmanuel Marty has a minimal "executive"  (smaller than a kernel) that
> loads objects into kernel space (superuser mode).  Each object is in a
> special binary format with multiple entry points.  If you want to know
> more about this design please e-mail me and I'll tell you how to get more
> info.

Is this and offshoot of the Tunes project?

> What you said sounds more like a microkernel, because you imply the
> objects are running in user space.  However, each resource being
> abstracted by a separate object isn't exactly a microkernel either.  It's
> more like what we're doing in TUNES:
>
> In the TUNES project, we're not using EITHER Emmanuel Marty's "no-kernel"
> NOR a microkernel.  Every aspect of the system is abstracted by an object,
> yes.  But objects don't run in "user mode" or "kernel mode", because
> objects aren't tied to a specific low-level representation.  The
> implementation of any object or group of objects changes dynamically,
> while being verified to conform to its specification.  This design is
> extremely flexible, and can be stable if the programmer and user both
> desire it for a particular object.

What do you mean? Do the objects jump in and out of different rung levels?

> As for speed, it is my opinion that almost every single system,
> programming language, and most apps, were designed for speed, at the cost
> of every other single desirable attribute to the user or programmer.  In
> other words, making tradeoffs to gain speed in the short-term is the main
> reason why we have a "software crisis" at all.  If you want your OS to be
> universal, it cannot make concessions to speed.  In TUNES, we consider
> "speed" to be how quickly the user can get their job done.  That means
> that total control over the system, and being easy to use, is of a higher
> priority than "runs fast on this CPU."  With such a flexible system, the
> system designers cannot possibly know what "efficiency" means for every
> single user.  First the user must decide what the system will be used for,
> then optimizations for speed can take place.  Otherwise the system is not
> "general-purpose", or universal if you like.

Agreed.  We are stating flexibly as the #1 priority of the system design, and will
keep that in mind.

Thanks for your input, I hope to see your posts often.

--
-----------------------------
Pat Wendorf
UniOS Group
http://members.xoom.com/unios
beholder@ican.net
ICQ: 1503733
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