[unios] Re: No kernel

[Pat Wendorf]

From: Pat Wendorf <beholder@ican.net>

> Pat, can you do something about your mail program?  It's word wrapping at
> 80 or more columns, when polite limits for e-mail should be around 74 (to
> leave room for quoting).  I had trouble reading the digest on the web
> because of horizontal scroll bars (I think especially your posts).

I don't know what is wrong with it, as I have it set to 72... I set it to 65 to see if
it's any better, but I don't think anyone else complained.  As for the web page, I use
variable width columns without any carriage returns in the documents.  They are all
written in Netscape Composer, and again, you are the first to mention it.  If you could
send me a screen shot of what it looks like, I'll look into it.

> > The working model, as I understand it, at this point is totally abstracted
> > hardware that handles all the tasking and memory management.  Objects are handled
> > by other objects loaded at boot time (such as a system abstract).  Each object
> > interacts with each other object with small IPC code.  Access to objects is
> > controlled by a security object within the system abstract.  I guess you could say
> > the model runs in flat mode on an intel processor (I'm not as knowledgeable about
> > this as some of the other members).  As I understand from Pieter's model, the
> > whole object hierarchy is implemented in tree form, where top level objects have
> > the most access, and can grant or deny it as such.
>
> Could someone write this up in a document and put it on the web page?  I
> feel uncomfortable critiquing a second-hand description of some model.  If
> Pieter would be the one to do it, and he's away, I don't mind waiting for
> him to get back.  I have plenty of other things to do.

I said this is the current working model... we are looking/thinking into other models at
the moment, you may critique this one as you wish, or look in the archives for the other
two ideas being worked on...  And I'm sorry that was a coalition of Anders and my own
model.  Pieter's has somewhat similar ideas but laid out very differently.

The current models on the web page are my own (as such, I am not second hand
accounting... just being polite enough to include everyone's ideas), and I am going to
add Anders pure mOS model on the next update (if he lets me).  Pieter has a model
somewhat outlined in the list, which I will also add if it could be summarized into a
single document.  We are still working on the model, and as such have not concluded on a
single design yet.

> > I don't believe we are looking
> > at a kernel at this point, just free floating objects intercommunicating in
> > defined channels.
> [and moved up from later on]
> > Agreed.  We are stating flexibly as the #1 priority of the system
> > design, and will keep that in mind.
>
> It seems two other members of your list disagree with you.
> [Anders Petersson] I want a kernel. ;)
> [Pieter] Ok, me to. It's faster.

Yes, they are allowed to :)  It is a free project, and if the other models work out
better, than that is what we will use.  If anyone could find a way to make the project
more democratic, I'm all ears. :)

> Am I to interpret this discussion that you want a minimal kernel, with
> most everything done by objects?  I'm sorry if I'm off track here, I just
> joined the list.  I will go back and read the archives to catch up soon.

You'll find a lot of the idea flow and reasoning for what we have now, in there.

> > What do you mean? Do the objects jump in and out of different rung levels?
>
> They might.. but that's not the point.  What happens is that the user
> controls what objects become part of (integrated with) the system.
> Objects have full specification (kind of like source code, except leaving
> out all implementation specific details.  Implementation hints can be
> provided, or even full implementations, but these can be overridden).  As
> long as the specification is followed the system (with the user's help)
> can do whatever it wants with the underlying representations.
> Optimizations often cross object boundaries, according to high level
> constrants (like resources available, and user preferences).

Sounds kinda like the Hardware Abstract/Code Form Application system.  I assume programs
are distributed in codified form (rather than compiled)?  As it sounds like you are
gearing for platform independence.

> The idea is an object is just what the user sees.  Underneath, objects or
> groups of objects may be replaced by other objects in other arrangements,
> as long as they act the same.  The original objects will be retained for
> the user to interact with, although the underlying ones can be accessed
> (and interacted with) if desired.

Yep, same idea here... Objects interact with high level abstracts, which are mapped to
any low level device driver that conforms to spec.  It's the only way to maintain
performance, flexibility, and portability at the same time.  The only difference with
the current working model we have is, the kernel functions are mapped to a plugable
object, which (hopefully) can be changed at run-time.  This allows for different methods
of processing to happen, such as long or short threading, differing types of memory
management, or even differing IPC for objects.   The model is very flexible, however the
other group members (at the moment) believe a kernel is a better idea, in which to
handle all the basic management tasks.  I think technically,  it can still be plugable,
and I think it would be a lot quicker.  If everyone agrees that a kernel would be very
beneficial to the design then that's what were gonna have.  We just need to revise the
working model.

--
-----------------------------
Pat Wendorf
UniOS Group
http://members.xoom.com/unios
beholder@ican.net
ICQ: 1503733
-----------------------------



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