LispOS directly on hardware or on Unix kernel?

Rainer Joswig
Sat, 3 May 1997 00:13:27 +0200

At 10:33 Uhr +1000 2.5.1997, Chris Bitmead uid(x22068) wrote:

>I think you missed the point. They are C programs implemented on an OS
>which is either UNIX or mucher closer to UNIX than LispOS. I don't
>think you're suggesting LispOS be built on top of MacOS are you? Well,
>then if you want Netscape it will probably be the Linux or BSD version

I don't want Netscape.

>Me too, but we can't get rid of tar completely because we need it to
>import external stuff.

Write a tape archiver in Lisp.

> And we're going to go down the track of giving
>compatibility for these C/Unix/WhateverOS, then we probably need sh
>and cp in order to build legacy applications.

Get rid of sh and cp.

>I agree, you are preaching to the converted. But as of now there is a
>lot of stuff out there that just plain works,

Yep, and most of it runs under Windows.

>example that there exists a free Postscript viewer at all. I think the
>chances of anyone re-writing this in Lisp are pretty much nil.

Why not? Adobe seems to have a PostScript engine in Lisp, Genera has
a simple one, ...

>Well then you will have to make it run on Windows and Unix. I suspect
>a lot of the people on this list are free software fans and will want
>to see it running on Linux/BSD at a minimum.

I'm a fan of productive software. I don't care about Linux/BSD a bit.

>By the standards of difficulty in OS development, building an OS on a
>micro kernel is extremely easy. Apple DID build an OS on a
>micro-kernel. It's called MkLinux and it took them a matter of months
>to build.

Yep, one OS - but not a combination of more than one OS and
also a stupid OS.

>>> An environment that can run any and every software
>>>you can throw at it.
>>Pretty unrealistic. I can have Mac emulators on PCs, PC emulators
>>on Macs. Pretty much unusable for *real* work.
>Why so unrealistic? I've heard that the Mac emulator on Linux as well
>as WABI on Linux are actually pretty good.

Why didn't I hear that too? Maybe because our customers do real
work with their machines? Stuff like publishing magazines or
creating high-quality graphics for advertizing. I never have
seen anyone using Photoshop, Xpress, Freehand, etc running
on an emulator in a production environment. This is actually
software people pay big bucks to run. I don't care whether
some of these emulators for outdated system software can run
a small calendar application - can it host a web server?

>>I don't need Unix-compatibility (the ability to directly
>>run Unix software) on my Windows NT. Why would I need it
>>on LispOS?
>Well you need compatibility with something.

Data compatibility more than application compatibility.

>>What are the benefits of a Lisp OS when you are not using Lisp
>>software? That is Lisp applications?
>2 things:
>- developing new applications (which I hope can be ported back to the
>real world)
>- A better environment for doing work in.

Get LispWorks from Harlequin. It is the integrated environment.
Available today. You might also take a look at MCL.

Rainer Joswig, Lavielle EDV Systemberatung GmbH & Co, Lotharstrasse 2b, D22041
Hamburg, Tel: +49 40 658088, Fax: +49 40 65808-202,
Email: , WWW: