lzh from irc discussing new and improved irc

[Kevin Small]

IRC log started Mon Mar  6 22:03
*** Starting conversation with fare
-> *fare* yes
-> *fare* yes
*Fare* hi, then
-> *fare* lo
*** lzh (small@netcom22.netcom.com) has joined channel #fare
*** Ending conversation with fare
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*** Inviting Fare to channel #fare
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*** Mode change "+o Fare" on channel #fare by lzh
<Fare> hiya
> hello.
<Fare> Why not go on #Tunes instead ? Well, asyou please.
> came to my computer and you were just leaving. It said changing servers.
<Fare> yup, I went to linuxnet from undernet
> You can't be on both servers at once?
<Fare> lzh: I dunno howto use irc windows, and I currently have only one xterm running irc.
<Fare> here it is. Fare on undernet too !
>  /window new
> Yeah but your running another client now.
<Fare> Then what ?
> As apposed to running one client and using multiple windows from it.
>  /set novice off
>  /window new
>  /window create
<Fare> *** Cannot create new screen!
> ^x p  ^x n
> Ok so the /window create part doesn't work for you.
> But I don't use that here because it's buggy under screen. (screen the program).
<Fare> it desesperately tried to open a window, that disappeared before I could see anything.
>  /window new should do it then. Though I use ^x n
> The create one will make a new resizable xterm on the desktop.
> whereas the new one will only divide or subpartition the existing xterm window.
<Fare> ok. I prefer multiple irc clients...
> Of course I'm not too experienced with using irc under X at all.
> So something you had on your mind or just wanting to say hello?
*** Signon by Fare detected
<Fare> mostly say hello
> Oh that's nice I appreciate that. :)
<Fare> I have an exam tomorrow (= in less than 2 hours)
>  :(
> I always feel so much better when the things that are really on my mind pass.
<Fare> pass what you have about Tunes...
> Like not knowing how I could possibly make it through being scolded by the principal of the school. After a few times I would think to myself sitting outside the office on the bench that hey it'll just pass. And sure enough it did.
<Fare> what were you scolded about ?
<Fare> you're getting stoical
> I couldn't possibly remember every instance. And I'm not even sure I could remember one.
> you mean social?
> Hey that's a word I didn't even know.
> See you've got in some cases a bigger vocab then me.
> I'm impressed.
<Fare> hey, there's the same in french
<Fare> and I'm interested in philosophy and ethics
<Fare> so stoicism I know. Moreover the word is well-known in french.
> The etymology of that word in my dictionary doesn't say its origin.
<Fare> 1 cap: of, relating to, or resembling the Stoics or their doctrines
<Fare>      <Stoic logic>
<Fare> 1sto-ic \'sto^--ik\ n
<Fare> [ME, fr. L stoicus, fr. Gk sto^-:ikos, lit., of the portico, fr. Stoa
<Fare>      (Poikile^-) the Painted Portico, portico at Ahens where Zeno
<Fare>      taught]
<Fare> (14c)
<Fare> 1 cap: a member of a school of philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium
<Fare>      about 300 B.C. holding that the wise man should be free from passion,
<Fare>      unmoved by joy or grief, and submissive to natural law
<Fare> 2: one apparently or professedly indifferent to pleasure or pain 
<Fare> (14c)
<Fare> 1 cap: a member of a school of philosophy founded by Zeno of Citium
<Fare>      about 300 B.C. holding that the wise man should be free from passion,
<Fare>      unmoved by joy or grief, and submissive to natural law
<Fare> 2: one apparently or professedly indifferent to pleasure or pain 
<Fare> oops
> Middle English, French, Latin, and Greek.
> lit. = Italy ?
<Fare> dunno
<Fare> litterary
<Fare> litterally
*** Signon by Fare detected
> <Fare> [ME, fr. L stoicus, fr. Gk sto^-:ikos, lit., of the portico, fr. Stoa
> I typed in lit. in my dictionary and the only definition relating to country was  Lit (in Italy) lira.
> Aaaah it doesn't matter much.
<Fare> fr. is french
<Fare> but lit. may be something else than a country
<Fare> look at the abbreviation index at the end of your dictionary; they should be standard...
<Fare> especially if you're having a webster....
> It's been a little different on LinuxNET recently. The central EFNET hub in the UK was put onto LinuxNET. There has been an influx of Brits.
<Fare> uhoh
> They come into #linux not knowing what it is but just coming in for the sheer number of people that are in it.
<Fare> hehe
> They say things like "Any girls?"  And otherwise do stupid things. There have been a lot of kicks and bans.
> One particular time it was really active in #linux with many technical discussions going on and a few of these UK'rs were in there.
> One said to the others "There's a lot yanks on the line tonight mate!".
> As if we had invaded them or something.
<Fare> hehe
> IT really doesn't help matters that the regular practice has been to put the latest funny joke into the /topic.
> As it draws more of them in and they come in talking about things relating to whatever the stupid topic was set to last.
<Fare> hoho
> I tried for awhile to enforce keeping the topic to being set appropriately. But the regulars are just to rigid in their ways.
<Fare> linuxnet runners are lame
> Oh well, I'll just have to strive ahead and implement the dicussions system as I see it.
<Fare> the same as on efnet formerly
> s/discussions/discussion/
> I would do away with the client server system that is in place now.
> I would put more functionality into the clients and still have servers but for smaller tasks.
> That way data is not all being funneled through one little pipe.
> But can go from client to client and even client to client to 3 other clients as is network effecient.
> Anyway all that. I think though writing a client to interface with the existing would be a much needed learning experience.
> Harness and tap off the existing so as to get up to speed and get results more quickly.
> So that the energy is not lost as might happen if trying to reimplement the system from the ground up.
<Fare> client/server for irc ?
<Fare> an irc rival ?
<Fare> an ytalk alike ?
> IRC uses client server now.
<Fare> yes, I know.
<Fare> I don't understand what YOU are doing.
> Not ytalk like really. More so like irc.
> Do you understand how IRC is structured?
<Fare> lzh: I think so
> How the data goes from each client to it's server and the servers communicate in a spanning tree.
> The servers end up being a bottle neck.\
<Fare> yup
<Fare> you want a distributed irc ?
> It's much more effecient if the clients would communicate with eachother taking the shortest path.
<Fare> yes, but you still need servers to arbitrate client-to-client comm, and tell clients who to connect to
> But if there are two clients that are far apart and several that are close to one of those the data should first go to one and then that client should pass it to the other local ones.
<Fare> also intercontinental comms will go through bottleneck links anyway...
> yes the servers would still be needed but the data would not have to go through them.
> also as clients only receive data that they are interested in spam doesn't end up going anywhere but /dev/null.
> This is accomplished through per message scoring that everybody is allowed to make on every message they see.
> The servers can be there to keep the tally.
<Fare> lzh: grouping sends is *useful* when going through common lines
> Also the servers would be there to maintain the per message category assignments.
<Fare> if my neighbour, you and me are chatting, the you-me-he comm you rather a only one transatlantic link...
> Then the clients could select which categories they were interested in and only receive messages that fit into those categories as decided by others that have already reviewed them.
> correct.
> Also whoever originated the message would be able to categorize the message before sending it out.
<Fare> categorize ?
> Scoring can also be applied to how much you trust or value other peoples decisisons.
> There should be some predefined categories and maybe even allow newley defined ones too.
> category: food score: 2 message: I like pizza.
> Then you might category: perosonal likes score: -1 
> Then if I've got my client set to pick up food messages then I would receive the one about pizza.
> But if it had a score lower then some value I had set I wouldn't receive it.
* lzh gallops off in search of desert.
* lzh trots in feeling proud of his catch.
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*** Fare is ~rideau@jonque.ens.fr (http://acacia.ens.fr:8080/home/rideau/Tunes)
*** on channels: @#fare @#Tunes @#Linpeople 
*** on irc via server sangfroid.blackdown.org ([198.67.33.33] LinuxNET IRC Server)
*** Channel    Users  Topic
*** #tunes     1      
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*** #linpeople 1      
<Fare>  sorry
<Fare> I was knocked down
> By my horse?
*** "Fare #Fare *" removed from PUBLIC list
> I'll try and be more careful when maneuvering my horse.
*** On PUBLIC from "Fare #Fare *" do beep [QUIET] <0>
<Fare> no, by sleepiness
> Oh, I almost had that happen the other day when I was awake for 38 hours. But I was always able to keep my head up.
> I really couldn't read the irc RFC1459.TXT file. I kept falling asleep.
> But things that kept me active I was able to do.
> WAKE UP! GET READY FOR SCHOOL!
> 
<Fare> I'm ready
<Fare> I had to take a shower
<Fare> Now I'm ok.
<Fare> If you wanna have a irc alike, you'll need some tree thingy, unless you can access the routeing tables
<Fare> (which you can't)
<Fare> what you can do is refine on trees:
<Fare> each channel has got its tree;
<Fare> trees dynamically adapt;
<Fare> but you can't escape having trees, unless you convince the telco companies to let you use their route tables.
> That's assuming that all the servers have to talk to one another.
<Fare> now, you should separate the distribution stuff from the actual data transmitted format
> And the spanning tree model doesn't have to be followed to end servers could bypass those ones in between.
<Fare> people may like to exchange not only ascii text.
> That's for sure.
<Fare> Let separate the independent mechanisms.
<Fare> are you saving that ?
<Fare> you could send it to me.
> I always log everything.
> Sure I suppose.
<Fare> You could even program that for Tunes.
<Fare> We need some distributed programs.
> Your streaks of brilliance aren't always repeatable eh.
<Fare> hehe :(
<Fare> even if they are, it costs.
> I'm compiling ircii-2.8.
> I'm going to try and setup a server too.
<Fare> At school, I needn't compile anything: other people do it for me. Lots of proficient people here.
<Fare> At home, I mostly compile Tunes-related stuff.
> Ok well here I've got no one to help me. :)
<Fare> lzh: if you wanna write distributed stuff, please use Tunes, or write it with a Tunes port in mind...
<Fare> ok. I must go.
<Fare> byye !
*** Signoff: Fare (Back to the Tunes OS project -- /whowas Fare)

-- 
Kevin Small
small@netcom.com