Joerg F.Wittenberger <> Joerg F.Wittenberger <>
Sat Nov 10 12:25:02 2001

>>>>> "RRBT" == RE01 Rice Brian T EM2 <> writes:

RRBT> If you look at the Tunes CVS snapshots (best available as .bz2),

I can't - can't figure out where to get it from.  could you help

RRBT> you'll find some Scheme source code written as some prototype
RRBT> building blocks for Tunes' semantics. I run a project

Ah making things easy, hey?  Askemos has Scheme code between the
comments as well.

RRBT> alongside/as-prototype-for Tunes called Arrow
RRBT> ( However, because of my current
RRBT> location, the code updates are lagged by a few months.

Today I read deeper into the documents.  Interesting reads, but pretty
demanding for a none native speaker after a working week.  The Arrow
paper is beyond my capability of reception for today.

RRBT> Basically, Francois-Rene Rideau (Fare) and I are doing active
RRBT> research to see how to design Tunes' implementation, and David

If nothing else, than at least we agree that todays OS's are
fundamentally flawed.  Next there are some fundamental design
decisions (separation of aspects: functional vs. dynamic description,
orthogonality, persistence and importance of principles like security
and liberty), which I see we share.

RRBT> Manifold (Tril) manages the web site. Most others are watching
RRBT> and waiting for a solid plan from us (am I wrong? someone
RRBT> correct me on this, please).

As for the web site I could imagine that you might like the layered
Wiki implementation, which comes with Askemos.  It's unfortunately not
yet documented (I'm willing upon demand), it allows to search for
links in several Wiki data bases.  The search order can be altered
depending on point of view.  Use example: I look at a term (say
CustumerXY) from the technology view and see details, from the
business view and see "big reference" and from the personal view and
see "beware the boss".  Furthermore you can include pages into each
other and have several views at it.

One of the more fascinating moments: I just added a few notes about
Tunes and found that it has a great context view (read well balanced)


I don't have enough usage experience yet.  A graphical view of the
network between the pages would be great...

>> Next I'd like to invite you to review As I
>> said, the design goals where pretty simillar.  We would like to
>> share ideas and code as much as possible - after all who want's to
>> duplicate the work?

RRBT> Unfortunately, from my location, only the front page is rendered
RRBT> at all, which doesn't help me out much. I'd estimate that if you

It doesn't help at all.  You can't access other ports than 80?  So I
better don't ask what's you location is - you wan't be allowed to tell
anyway ;-)

That's a pity.  You can get everything (code and docs) from

But only the readme will be of use until you have build it.

Beware that documents are in infancy.

RRBT> can compare your system's semantics (or its intended semantics)
RRBT> with those of, say, a given Lisp like Scheme, or perhaps some
RRBT> other language that supports really expressive semantics, then
RRBT> we would have a very good idea how to compare the ideas. If

May I first take off the XML-is-everything marketing envelope (Askemos
is supposed to be useful, which includes market fit): S-expressions ==

Askemos defines a virtual machine at document level, wich works within
an abstract infromation space.

Orthogonality, pure concepts, functional programing, dynamic modelling
using petri nets, persistence etc. etc.

Information is understood to be multidimentional.  Three axis so far:
structure, context and rights.

The most interesting success so far is a capability system, which
doesn't need an administrative super power.  (Excluding a systematic
error of todays OSes: whom's account to hack if there's no root -
boring business.)  It's only a few lines of code.

Next it doesn't trust a particular machine to operate correct.
Reliability is achived by redundant execution of transactions and
voting on the result.  This part is only prototyped at the moment.

RRBT> you're interested in a direct review on the OS pages, you can
RRBT> write to the Review subproject mailing list, but there's a long
RRBT> waiting list for adding entries to those pages. :)

Unfortunately I'm sort of forced to do other things to make my living.



The worst of harm may often result from the best of intentions.