[Fwd: Re: [OT] We need a language]
David Scott Williams
wilda21@ca.com
Fri May 30 14:46:02 2003
Woops...mistakenly didn't send this to the whole group
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [OT] We need a language
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 17:45:28 -0400
From: David Scott Williams <wilda21@ca.com>
To: Brian T Rice <water@tunes.org>
References: <3ED72D7D.9020202@tiscali.it>
<Pine.LNX.4.53.0305301423400.1846@bespin.org>
You really are a dickhead sometimes, ~water.
If TUNES fails to take off, at least you will have refined this aspect
of your self.
Brian T Rice wrote:
> On Fri, 30 May 2003, PB wrote:
>
>
>>"We need a language that lets us scribble and smudge and smear,
>>not a language where you have to sit with a teacup of types
>>balanced on your knee and make polite conversation with a
>>strict old aunt of a compiler."
>>
>>Paul Graham, "Hackers and painters".
>
>
> Well, this certainly got a lot of responses. It has well-thought-out
> responses on LL1 as Fare mentioned. The stuff here is silly.
>
> May I re-interpret "we need a language" as a call for HLL definition?
> There are certainly a lot of misconceptions among today's posters.
> Certainly the designs in http://tunes.org/HLL/architecture.html should
> explain that we're not talking about a single language, but something
more
> akin to a network. The spec work at http://tunes.org/~water/spec/ points
> to a similar explanation, and also explains that the primary point is to
> be able to define subsets of functionality and such that make those
> optional proofs that Jeff mentioned possible. The spec defines a
subset as
> any situation where something is restricted in /any/ way at all, which
> includes typing of attributes or configurations. This is both necessary
> for a useful system and for a safe and high-performance system. How else
> can you assume that something won't happen except by not letting it
happen
> or observing that it doesn't (noting that real-time observation violates
> the principle anyway)?
>
> Slate certainly doesn't attempt to do any of those things, and Max
doesn't
> either, really. They're projects to demonstrate and exercise the use of
> various aspects, like persistence, interfaces, run-time architecture,
etc.
>
> Do any of these things not make sense to people, or are you content to
> reply about something which has nothing to do with TUNES with ramblings
> that ignore what TUNES has to teach?
>