This project is going [multiple directions, mistaken for a lack , of direction.]

Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:21:15 -0700 (PDT)

The Retro project has potential of being a tunes LLL.  If you recall the
goals of the LLL project, it is a temporary being which will be discarded
AS SOON AS THE SYSTEM IS BOOTSTRAPPED.  In fact, many members (myself
included) believe that a LLL is not the way to proceed.  As Fare and I
have always said, whoever does the work, decides what work is done.  I'm
still at work in the opposite direction as Tom- starting with HLL first. 
The philosophy of TUNES is that everyone CAN go their own direction.  Is
it possible that this philosophy is contrary to the very notion most
people have of an "organization?"  If so, then TUNES IS NOT AN
ORGANIZATION.  Organizations assume that disorder is natural, then try to
impose structure on that.  Hence they always fail, because they believe
entropy is natural, and themselves are unnatural.  Self-destruction is
inevitable.  The non-organization (such as TUNES) assumes that order is
natural.  In other words, I believe that with everyone working in his or
her own direction, THE PROJECT CONVERGES.  This is why I can never claim
to be speaking on behalf of the project.  It's impossible to try.  The
TUNES project will still continue, even if ALL the members leave,
including me, Fare, everyone.  I'm not saying someone else will form a
tunes organization.  It doesn't need one!  It will happen anyway.  Relax
and stop trying to impose order on disorder. It has the opposite effect.

On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, RE01 Rice Brian T. EM2 wrote:

> what are you going to do?  you've said that you have ideas similar to mine.
> what about them?  can we work together or something, outside the group?

Even though this wasn't directed at me, I'd like to answer in the
affirmative, because *I* still want to work together.

> i'm sorry, but it disturbs me that you aren't going to support more than the
> discussion.  you must see me as wasting my time.  of course, you know that
> i've often thought about leaving the group.  this should be unsurprising,
> since i joined the group just last october, and have avoided doing so for
> the three years prior.
> i was hoping for a big change in the group, and that i could somehow bring
> that about with explaining my ideas.  your response just now suggests that
> this will never happen.

GMOL overreacted to Tom's personal project, Retro, mistaking it to be
the direction of TUNES as a whole.  In fact it is ONE of the directions.
But that's not important- why were you ever trying to change anyone else's
thinking?  You can't do it, nobody can.  Everyone is responsible for their
own mind, any alternative is mind control.  No wonder you run up against a

> if anyone would actually read the
> entire paper through and try to understand what i'm saying, even if it's
> poorly said, then i might have a chance here to get something useful done.

I haven't read it yet. I'm guilty. However, I'm going to read it now.

This project is not "falling apart."  It's exactly where it should be.

David Manifold <>
This message is placed in the public domain.